Jacob Billington: An In-Depth Look at the Jets Start to the Season - Part 2: Defense

Sure appreciate the time and effort you are putting into writing for us Jets fans!! Keep up the great work.

Sure appreciate the time and effort you are putting into writing for us Jets fans!! Keep up the great work.
- Pastor_Matt

Thank you!! The commenters here have been awesome to chat with as well!! Having a lot of fun writing for this team!

The players deserve to have a coach that can get the most out of them. Horrible systems, line combinations, constant shuffling the lines and confused defensive pairings have handcuffed this team all season. If it wasn't for Helly they would be blown out every game as this much improved defense just gives up too many dangerous chances mostly due to their lack of a decent defensive system. What a waste of talent.

Thank you!! The commenters here have been awesome to chat with as well!! Having a lot of fun writing for this team!
- Jacob Billington

Westville, Pictou County?

Sure appreciate the time and effort you are putting into writing for us Jets fans!! Keep up the great work.
- Pastor_Matt

Yes, great work!

*From prior thread*

I would guess Ves, PoMo's only been playing him 4-6 minutes a game...

I thought maybe his forum was a bit of an echo chamber, but over the past week I've made it a point to talk to anyone wearing Jets gear and they ALL agree, Wheeler needs to drop to the 3rd line and/or be limited to 15 minutes of ice time.
- Pastor_Matt

I think you're probably right, wonder how long before we hear about a Vesalainen trade request..

Yeah I've been saying it for years, the cracks in Wheeler's game has been showing for awhile already and considering the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons were lost anyway due to a weak D core it's crazy that he was played as many minutes as he was the last two years, he might be in better condition now had he not been overplayed these last two seasons, Maurice should've been practicing "load management" years ago, oh well, what's done is done.

Westville, Pictou County?
- bixll

Yep! Not far outside the area!

Yep! Not far outside the area!
- Jacob Billington

Very cool.

*From prior thread*



I think you're probably right, wonder how long before we hear about a Vesalainen trade request..

Yeah I've been saying it for years, the cracks in Wheeler's game has been showing for awhile already and considering the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons were lost anyway due to a weak D core it's crazy that he was played as many minutes as he was the last two years, he might be in better condition now had he not been overplayed these last two seasons, Maurice should've been practicing "load management" years ago, oh well, what's done is done.
- JetFuel

Just my thoughts on the Veslainen situation...

I think he should be given the opportunity for a more offensive role, that being said, what has He done to earn it? I remember back when all of the Erik Karlsson rumours were in full swing, and the Jets were in on it, but didn't want to give up Niku or Vesalainen. I am sure most Jets fans are wishing they pulled the trigger now.

I do think he could benefit from a shot in the top-six, but has never really been a high point producer. It will be very interesting to see where his development ends up in the long run. Lots of talent there.

**just figured I would add this in as a bonus**
JFresh Card for Vesalainen: TOI - 4th Liner
WAR%: 19%
EV Offense: 10% EV Defense: 55% PP/PK: N/A Finishing: 19% G/60: 3% A1/60: 0% Penalty: 83% QoC: 8% QoT: 3%

Haven't figured out a way to use these models through the writing program, so that is the best I can do for now haha.

The move of Wheeler playing with PLD and Connor sure has paid off. I wonder if the team is playing like this because of the move? He doesn't deserve to be there and the team knows it and is playing like they know it.

The move of Wheeler playing with PLD and Connor sure has paid off. I wonder if the team is playing like this because of the move? He doesn't deserve to be there and the team knows it and is playing like they know it.
- wesveness

I switched over the Jets game after the Sens 1st period, yikes 5-0! I didn't see this coming. Not after they played so well against the Oilers last week.

Something has to give here, its time for new coaching staff.

They lost 7 in a row last year and they wouldn't change the coaches. This is now 5 in a row and the team looks very uninterested.

Sure glad Wheeler is getting more TOI then Ehlers, Copp, Dubois,

I can't watch todays' game but did he get his 90 second PP shift?

I did not watch the game. When I saw the score, I thought it was the Vikings playing the NY Jets. Cannot believe Minnesota scored a touchdown on us!

I switched over the Jets game after the Sens 1st period, yikes 5-0! I didn't see this coming. Not after they played so well against the Oilers last week.
- Kevin Francis

Sounds like the exact same time I turned off the Jets game and decided to watch a movie.

Wheeler had 2nd most mins for forwards so he’ll probably give Maurice poop for that !

He still has #1 PP status so Maurice is following that direction from the captain.


We are sacrificing points for a Captain’s ego

Maurice took out 2 forwards who were playing decent/good and put in Beaulieu …..think about that one for awhile

It isn't going to get any easier on the back end of a back-to-back on the road in Calgary tonight against the RED hot Flames. I think the betting odds are the Jets to lose by 1.5

Just my thoughts on the Veslainen situation...

I think he should be given the opportunity for a more offensive role, that being said, what has He done to earn it? I remember back when all of the Erik Karlsson rumours were in full swing, and the Jets were in on it, but didn't want to give up Niku or Vesalainen. I am sure most Jets fans are wishing they pulled the trigger now.

I do think he could benefit from a shot in the top-six, but has never really been a high point producer. It will be very interesting to see where his development ends up in the long run. Lots of talent there.

**just figured I would add this in as a bonus**
JFresh Card for Vesalainen: TOI - 4th Liner
WAR%: 19%
EV Offense: 10% EV Defense: 55% PP/PK: N/A Finishing: 19% G/60: 3% A1/60: 0% Penalty: 83% QoC: 8% QoT: 3%

Haven't figured out a way to use these models through the writing program, so that is the best I can do for now haha.
- Jacob Billington

I think Vesalainen has been Josh Ho-Sang’d. Or Petan’d, if you prefer, but Petan never had that cockiness like Ves or Ho-Sang.

My point being he came in doing his thing his way, which when you aren’t NHL ready yet makes you look like a Richard, then eventually bought in and started working on everything he was told to work on. Ves, like Ho-Sang or Petan or even Roslovic before him, shored up his defence at the cost of the development of the entire rest of his game.
And now, as was the case with those previous 3, his offensive vision/instincts have faded because it’s been all “Defence! Defence! Defence!”, and he finds himself as yet another slightly above average defensive forward who can’t buy a goal.

So now Vesalainen probably can’t get that part of his game back. The only way you do is by playing, and playing with talent. Defence is easy to teach, offence not so much.
By following what the organization wanted out of him, he’s essentially turned himself into a player we already have 7 of, but with the added benefit of having far less experience and thus being seen as less “reliable”.
He was drafted for his scoring talent and power forward, Wheeler-esque potential. Since day 1 the Jets have aimed to coach that out of him.

The only reason Roslovic survived that treatment was by being way, way faster than everyone else, so he both created more for himself and looked to be working harder.
Ho-Sang and Petan have likely seen their last shot at NHL regular status because of this weird backwards philosophy.

The move of Wheeler playing with PLD and Connor sure has paid off. I wonder if the team is playing like this because of the move? He doesn't deserve to be there and the team knows it and is playing like they know it.
- wesveness

I don’t think it’s that political.
I think it’s just because Wheeler can’t hang there, which shuts down that line.
We haven’t had a solid line outside of 81-80-71 since Stastny went down, so when they ruin that, we’re f*cked

I think Vesalainen has been Josh Ho-Sang’d. Or Petan’d, if you prefer, but Petan never had that cockiness like Ves or Ho-Sang.

My point being he came in doing his thing his way, which when you aren’t NHL ready yet makes you look like a Richard, then eventually bought in and started working on everything he was told to work on. Ves, like Ho-Sang or Petan or even Roslovic before him, shored up his defence at the cost of the development of the entire rest of his game.
And now, as was the case with those previous 3, his offensive vision/instincts have faded because it’s been all “Defence! Defence! Defence!”, and he finds himself as yet another slightly above average defensive forward who can’t buy a goal.

So now Vesalainen probably can’t get that part of his game back. The only way you do is by playing, and playing with talent. Defence is easy to teach, offence not so much.
By following what the organization wanted out of him, he’s essentially turned himself into a player we already have 7 of, but with the added benefit of having far less experience and thus being seen as less “reliable”.
He was drafted for his scoring talent and power forward, Wheeler-esque potential. Since day 1 the Jets have aimed to coach that out of him.

The only reason Roslovic survived that treatment was by being way, way faster than everyone else, so he both created more for himself and looked to be working harder.
Ho-Sang and Petan have likely seen their last shot at NHL regular status because of this weird backwards philosophy.
- Rexypoo

Don't really disagree with anything you've said here Rexy but from day one of arriving Vesalainen looked very defensively responsible/aware, even in his 5 or so game stint in his rookie year he looked like a defensively conscious player.

This is an organization that would seemingly LOVE to have 7 bottom six options that are good defensively but don't score.

It's really too bad the coach hasn't put Vesa in a position to utilize his best weapon which is a booming shot we've yet to see at the NHL level(seriously I can't recall seeing one big/heavy shot from Vesalainen in the NHL yet), it's beyond ridiculous that Vesalainen hasn't seen any time on the 2nd PP unit but Lowry and Nash have.

Just my thoughts on the Veslainen situation...

I think he should be given the opportunity for a more offensive role, that being said, what has He done to earn it? I remember back when all of the Erik Karlsson rumours were in full swing, and the Jets were in on it, but didn't want to give up Niku or Vesalainen. I am sure most Jets fans are wishing they pulled the trigger now.

I do think he could benefit from a shot in the top-six, but has never really been a high point producer. It will be very interesting to see where his development ends up in the long run. Lots of talent there.

**just figured I would add this in as a bonus**
JFresh Card for Vesalainen: TOI - 4th Liner
WAR%: 19%
EV Offense: 10% EV Defense: 55% PP/PK: N/A Finishing: 19% G/60: 3% A1/60: 0% Penalty: 83% QoC: 8% QoT: 3%

Haven't figured out a way to use these models through the writing program, so that is the best I can do for now haha.
- Jacob Billington

Well idk, do guys really "earn" anything from 4-6 minutes from the 4th line?

Aside from the goalies is anyone on the Jets earning anything right now at all? I think many have earned a bag skate and/or benching and that includes the coach.

I'm not really a Vesalainen believer but if he requested a trade I certainly wouldn't hold it against him, really feels like a situation of another kid who's skill set isn't being utilized or developed properly meanwhile a some dead weight players get catered too with preferential treatment and a lot of minutes with better players while Vesa gets 4-6 minutes with a 4th liner (Toninato) and a guy who should probably be an AHL veteran/emergency callup at this point(Nash).

Well idk, do guys really "earn" anything from 4-6 minutes from the 4th line?

Aside from the goalies is anyone on the Jets earning anything right now at all? I think many have earned a bag skate and/or benching and that includes the coach.

I'm not really a Vesalainen believer but if he requested a trade I certainly wouldn't hold it against him, really feels like a situation of another kid who's skill set isn't being utilized or developed properly meanwhile a some dead weight players get catered too with preferential treatment and a lot of minutes with better players while Vesa gets 4-6 minutes with a 4th liner (Toninato) and a guy who should probably be an AHL veteran/emergency callup at this point(Nash).
- JetFuel

I would think about throwing him with Scheifele and Copp. Take the defensive pressure off with Copp there, have Scheifele as the set up guy.
Put Ehlers with Stastny and Wheeler so they have a driver/transition guy.

Maurice is at least a year beyond his best before date. Guy always tries to make people think he’s way smarter than he is to the detriment of the team.

Another wasted year.

I would think about throwing him with Scheifele and Copp. Take the defensive pressure off with Copp there, have Scheifele as the set up guy.
Put Ehlers with Stastny and Wheeler so they have a driver/transition guy.
- Rexypoo

So I'm guessing you're suggesting this?:

Connor-Dubois-Svech
Copp-Scheif-Vesalainen(on offhand for 1timers)
Ehlers-Stastny-Wheeler
Harkins-Lowry-Toninato

Well that could maybe work BUT the minutes would need to be distributed well so Ehlers gets adequate ice time to be effective, Wheeler would need to be dropped to line three where he likely belongs, Maurice would have to be willing to try Vesalainen higher in the lineup AND he'd have to get over his Lowry boner and put Lowry at 4C where he's always belonged, the stars would really need to align for all that to happen, I'm all for different things being tried to find something that works and like your idea Rexy but all that happening seems unlikely given this coach's track record with player usage.